Greek Family,
I was having a conversation with a sistergreek the other day when the topic of greek life came up. She made an interesting comparison between helping people in their quest for greekdom and affirmative action. Her main point was that many greeks are hypocritical in that many of us believe in the institution of affirmative action as a means of getting us to places that our efforts alone would not take us. In her opinion, the hypocrisy lies in that we don’t adopt that same attitude as it pertains to greek life. Many greeks maintain the mantra “I got mine the hard way…you need to get yours the same way” instead of wanting to make things easier for those who come behind us. I know what you are going to say: “They will appreciate my organization better if they have to work for it.” While this may be true, African-American doctors, lawyers, and educators who went through the Aff. Act. System are viewed no less than those who made it the hard way. What do you think? Is her comparison legitimate?
I’m interested in hearing your thoughts. Since this post is so long, I will give my opinion at a later time.
Additionally, while this post is intended for greeks, substantial responses from non-greeks are welcome.
#13—Prima Donna
I'm not requesting that things are harder for those that come behind me. But i'm also not going to get an application, like what it says, then just hand someone a certificate to Zetaland. Not about me trying to be a bully...cuz i'm far from it. There are just things to be learned. And one can only understand that if they have had a process themselves.
Even beyond greek life...just in life in general. Even if i do become financially successful to the point where i could give my children every single thing they desired and they didn't have to work a day in their life, i wouldn't. They have to learn how to earn the things they receive with effort and persistance. I believe that builds character & determines tru strength. In my opinion, alot of Black people that came before me were so strong becuz of the trials they had to endure and the things they overcame. And i also believe that we are living in a selfish generation becuz alot of young people didn't have enuff struggles to appreciate the good things when they come their way.
If things progressively gets easier and easier for folkz, i wouldn't want to see the type of human beings that would develop in the future.
I feel where u are coming from tho. We just have a difference in opinions. That's aight
DISGUSTING
I really don't give a damn what they do or think.
None of the D9 Frats are glee clubs.
If they are turned off by the thought of actually having to earn the privilege to be selected for membership, that's not someone I want involved with my Frat.
ChangePlease wrote:
all this "you aren't a man unless you're an omega" really does NOTHING for the positive image you're tyna put out there
Who are you quoting?
Who says I am trying to put any type of image out there?
ChangePlease wrote:
nothing wrong with being selective but don't be so militant and cut throat
Militant and cut throat?
Whose posts have you been reading?
ChangePlease wrote:
you only put yourself on a pedestel and we all know it only makes it easier for folks to throw rocks and eventually bring ya **** right back down to earth with the rest of us
Aim High.
ChangePlease wrote:
or in other words does more harm than good
OK, thanks for sharing.
ChangePlease wrote:
if your founders have your same attitude then no wonder your greek org hasn't really strived and did anything groundbreaking
there is a specific way to limit yourself and go about doing so
and you failed and have yet to learn how to do this
Please get your translator.
These sentences are grammatically impotent and have scared away any point they were designed to make.
Well, I’m glad to see this generated some sort of discussion…
Here’s what I think:
Affirmative action was designed to “undo” the discriminatory hiring/admission practices and equalize the minority/majority ratio in the workplace/schools. Persons of color/SE status were unfairly rejected with no regard to experience or qualifications.
As it pertains to Greek life:
We are all human. We all make mistakes. We are all prone to misjudgement. I know of several cases in which an applicant was denied because he/she didn’t look like the rest, or he/she is dating a person the member likes, or the members heard the applicant wanted to be a member of another organization (without verifying). In each case, the applicant was perfectly qualified. Basically, these persons were unfairly rejected IMHO.
Does this mean we have to accept everyone who has the GPA, extra-curriculars, LOR etc.?
Absolutely not, but is there some “affirmative action”-like protocol to “undo” the action of the bad-apples of a particular chapter?
I don’t necessarily agree with my friend(sistergreek)’s comparison. But I do, however acknowledge some evident parallels.
Still thinking though…
#13—Prima Donna
Aren't Greek Letter Organizations designed to be exclusive by virtue of their respective Membership Selection or Pledge Processes?
If a person is rejected because they would not mesh with the personality of the chapter, is that a bad thing?
Looking good on paper is NOT a guarantee of acceptance.
Add-ons, which is the current form of GLO Affirmative Action, ultimately further divide a chapter and alienate those members who were added on.
Would any of you currently in Greek Letter Organizations want Add-Ons in your Chapter? On your line?
Are people excluded based on personal feeling?
Sure, why not?
Do you have to date every man/woman that approaches you because they look good on paper?
NO, you don't HAVE to.
We are entering into what is supposed to be a lifelong commitment one to another when we cross a line, if there are mixed feelings before these folks cross that won't serve as a firm foundation after they cross.
Affirmative Action has no place in Greekdom. Period.
People do however need to adhere to Nationally Mandated Policies and refrain from Hazing.
I worked for mine and anyone who comes behind me if I am involved is gonna put in some work to get theirs.
People we are comparing apples and oranges.
Greek Life is not anyone's right.
It's something that you should have to work for.
We don't have open enrollment nor do we have to accept every applicant.
Affirmative Actions was a set of government programs designed to overcome the effects of past societal discrimination by allocating jobs and resources to members of specific groups, such as minorities and women.
It has now been revamped in the late 1990s to encompass any person who was "socially disadvantaged."
I can't speak for anyone else's organization but my founders were selective.
Prominent Men of my GLO have written on numerous occasions about the need to discriminate, most notably in Members versus Men.
Members Versus Men
The Greek Letter Societies among our group appear to have entered into a period of mad competition for obtaining members. Scarcely a student on the college campus but wears a pledge pin or a fraternity pin. Are the fraternities forgetting their original high standards? Can it be said that every man who enters college is of Fraternity material? If in any place, Omega has entered this mad race for members, pause and consider.
The value of our Fraternity is not in numbers, but in men, in real brotherhood. Eight men thoroughly immersed in the true Omega spirit are far greater assets than eighty with lukewarm enthusiasm. If any chapter has reached the maximum in numbers for efficient work and brotherly cooperation, let it initiate each year only a number of men equal to those leaving the chapter by way of graduation or otherwise.
Men, real men of Omega calibre, strive for that which is most difficult of attainment. Keep Omega the most difficult Greek Letter Society in which to obtain membership and be assured that Omega material will never be found lacking.Walter Herbert Mazyck (Alpha Chapter 1913), the Oracle, 1925
I agree with the above. With the advent and popularity of the internet, no one should be in the dark with regards to their journey. There is an almost infinite amount of public information about each org, plus there is more than enough anecdotal information on message boards like this to allow an interest to have insight into the do's and don'ts.
Aren't Greek Letter Organizations designed to be exclusive by virtue of their respective Membership Selection or Pledge Processes?
If a person is rejected because they would not mesh with the personality of the chapter, is that a bad thing?
Looking good on paper is NOT a guarantee of acceptance.
Add-ons, which is the current form of GLO Affirmative Action, ultimately further divide a chapter and alienate those members who were added on.
Would any of you currently in Greek Letter Organizations want Add-Ons in your Chapter? On your line?
Are people excluded based on personal feeling?
Sure, why not?
Do you have to date every man/woman that approaches you because they look good on paper?
NO, you don't HAVE to.
We are entering into what is supposed to be a lifelong commitment one to another when we cross a line, if there are mixed feelings before these folks cross that won't serve as a firm foundation after they cross.
Affirmative Action has no place in Greekdom. Period.
People do however need to adhere to Nationally Mandated Policies and refrain from Hazing.
I worked for mine and anyone who comes behind me if I am involved is gonna put in some work to get theirs.
Many greeks maintain the mantra “I got mine the hard way…you need to get yours the same way” instead of wanting to make things easier for those who come behind us. I know what you are going to say: “They will appreciate my organization better if they have to work for it.” While this may be true, African-American doctors, lawyers, and educators who went through the Aff. Act. System are viewed no less than those who made it the hard way. What do you think? Is her comparison legitimate?
You made a very poignant statement here that I don't think was given enough emphasis... Affirmative action did not make doctors... it gave regular people the TOOLS they needed to pursue a medical career... In the same way, I think that the only adequate comparison in greek life would be giving (or rather making available) information about Sororities and Fraternities for interestees.... I think that for the most part, that burden has been fulfilled with chapter/national websites, interest/information forums, members themselves, and books... Perhaps it is because I don't mind working for what I DESIRE...
Going back to the analogy, the doctors were given admission to a school... their hands were not held during their residency, their rounds, or their competency tests.. They had to WORK, RESEARCH, STUDY,and ENDURE HARDSHIPS to get to where they are... The same applies to Greek Life... By virtue of the nature of humans, we don't necessarily put as much value on things that we (or someone we know) did not work for. Take our wonderful AfricanAmerican race as an example... Do you think that some people would act how they act if THEY had to sit at the back of the bus? or if they were hosed down for being in a WHITE only area? With each generation, comes a grop of people that were DESTINED to be set apart so that they could lead the way for the others... Among them were the riotous slaves in Haiti, the freedom fighters of the 50s and 60s, the diligent entrepeneurs and thinkers of the 20s, and the FOUNDERS of these sororities and fraternities that you hold so dear....
All, to make an affirmative action comparison, you have to evaluate where the affirmative action would be taking place. Would it be in giving information, or in Adding-on to pre-existing lines... I think that people need to STOP complaining and BUCK UP... if they were destined to be greek, then their are some things that they need to endure so that when they cross those burning sands, they will have SOMETHING to give God the glory for...
::Counts change in pocket::
and that's my $0.46 cents...
::comes down from soapbox::
I appreciate my beloved Sorority because I earned it. I researched, I saved up (financially), I humbled myself, I endured, and I EARNED my Pearls. And no one can take that away from me. Period. So, LaidBack, I absolutely agree with you. Membership isn't a right. It is my privilege and honor to be a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.
I don't necessarily see a parallel between membership in a private organization and access to public resources, per se. However, I do believe in fairness and impartiality--which is the basis for affirmative action. I don't believe that meeting or even exceeding the paper requirements should be an automatic guarantee for membership. I don't believe in add-ons, or even the idea of legacy, but more than that, I don't believe that a person should be turned away due to personal prejudice. I've seen that happen with quite a few chapters in quite a few organizations. This is what I took from my sistergreek's comparison.
Besides that, methinks we see eye to eye.
#13--Prima Donna
People we are comparing apples and oranges.
Greek Life is not anyone's right.
It's something that you should have to work for.
We don't have open enrollment nor do we have to accept every applicant.
Affirmative Actions was a set of government programs designed to overcome the effects of past societal discrimination by allocating jobs and resources to members of specific groups, such as minorities and women.
It has now been revamped in the late 1990s to encompass any person who was "socially disadvantaged."
I can't speak for anyone else's organization but my founders were selective.
Prominent Men of my GLO have written on numerous occasions about the need to discriminate, most notably in Members versus Men.
Members Versus Men
The Greek Letter Societies among our group appear to have entered into a period of mad competition for obtaining members. Scarcely a student on the college campus but wears a pledge pin or a fraternity pin. Are the fraternities forgetting their original high standards? Can it be said that every man who enters college is of Fraternity material? If in any place, Omega has entered this mad race for members, pause and consider.
The value of our Fraternity is not in numbers, but in men, in real brotherhood. Eight men thoroughly immersed in the true Omega spirit are far greater assets than eighty with lukewarm enthusiasm. If any chapter has reached the maximum in numbers for efficient work and brotherly cooperation, let it initiate each year only a number of men equal to those leaving the chapter by way of graduation or otherwise.
Men, real men of Omega calibre, strive for that which is most difficult of attainment. Keep Omega the most difficult Greek Letter Society in which to obtain membership and be assured that Omega material will never be found lacking.Walter Herbert Mazyck (Alpha Chapter 1913), the Oracle, 1925
