i attended a meeting of A&T's History Club the other day....had a great time by the way ...but anywayz, that's beside the point...
@ one point....it was said by a few there that contrary to popular belief...Black people would've been better off in the long-run without integration of the races....
they said that we would probably be much further by now because we wouldn't have gotten lazy and "comfortable" over time with the "as is" conditions...
PLUS...there would be much more unity within the Black community...because we'd be forced to interact more with each other and get along to overcome similar racial boundaries of the '70s, '60s, & prior...
one excellent analogy one brotha used was....when you go into the auditorium of a predominantly white school....you're going to see all of the blacks come together in that auditorium and sit with each other, whether they know each other or not...
but if you go to one of a predominantly black school (HBCU or the like)...you go into the auditorium and all of the blacks are spread out
i was like dag...that's very true...
pretty much everyone in the room agreed with him...
but me & this one brotha were the only ones like....sort of torn...
because you would like to believe that all of that protesting, marching, fighting, etc. etc...was not out of vain...and ultimately, integration was the best solution...
but when you really stop to think about it....was it?
not by ANY means knocking the achievements of those who came before us & demanded justice....i think their contributions were HIGHLY necessary...
it's just something to consider....like, what would things have been like if integration never happen? think it'd really have been for the worse...or perhaps maybe...just maybe...for the better?
someone else in the room said there would have definitely been a second Civil War....but this time...not between the regions (North vs. South)...but between ethnicities...or specifically...Blacks vs. Whites
i've considered that before...but anyway...so what do u all think?
actually ive found myself to think some of the same things about what wouldve happened if there was no integration. i think some aspects of it are good but then again it does seem at times that we are not as "tight" as the other races sometimes although like u said when there is a small group of black people in an auditorium with white people, they will sit together even though they dont know each other. but i guess well never know.
hmmm im kinda with you Poetiq because i honestly dont know. but as for this
Quote:
like, what would things have been like if integration never happen? think it'd really have been for the worse...or perhaps maybe...just maybe...for the better?
i dont really think it was an issue of if intergration would have been better or worse for the african american community. i think it was the fact that we werent entitled to the choice. back in the day, it was either you stay with your people (in the colored section, i.e. colored water fountains, colored bathroom, etc.) or u face the consequence. we fought becasue we were jipped out of opportunity. to be able to say 'i didnt choose to drink at that water fountain because i didnt want to as opposed to not being able to drink their because i couldnt'. it was all about principal and right.
did that even make sense? im so tired that i dont even think that sounded right so forgive me if it didnt u guys.
hmmm im kinda with you Poetiq because i honestly dont know. but as for this
Quote:
like, what would things have been like if integration never happen? think it'd really have been for the worse...or perhaps maybe...just maybe...for the better?
i dont really think it was an issue of if intergration would have been better or worse for the african american community. i think it was the fact that we werent entitled to the choice. back in the day, it was either you stay with your people (in the colored section, i.e. colored water fountains, colored bathroom, etc.) or u face the consequence. we fought becasue we were jipped out of opportunity. to be able to say 'i didnt choose to drink at that water fountain because i didnt want to as opposed to not being able to drink their because i couldnt'. it was all about principal and right.
did that even make sense? im so tired that i dont even think that sounded right so forgive me if it didnt u guys.
gurrrrrl nawwwww i feel ya 110%!!
that's how i feel about the "sitting in the back" situation too...
it's like, yeah those before us fought for us to be able to sit in the front...but that didn't necessarily mean that we're going to be sitting in the front for the rest of our lives...
it's just the principle of not being told what to do or how to do...
being able to have the same choices as Whites and whatnot...
some could even apply that to the concept of HBCUs...
some argue that the concept of HBCUs contradicts the past struggles for the success of integration among the races...
but it's all about having the right to attend a "racially-diverse" school if we want to...
and at the same time, our facilities have the same as those considered to be predominantly White...
AND at the same time even giving Whites and other minorities the opportunity to learn within our borders...
so yes, miss girl...i definitely feelz ya...
one excellent analogy one brotha used was....when you go into the auditorium of a predominantly white school....you're going to see all of the blacks come together in that auditorium and sit with each other, whether they know each other or not...
but if you go to one of a predominantly black school (HBCU or the like)...you go into the auditorium and all of the blacks are spread out
i was like dag...that's very true...
That makes my feelings even more unclear.
This is a damn good post. We need to meet up in person sometime or another.
hmmm im kinda with you Poetiq because i honestly dont know. but as for this
Quote:
like, what would things have been like if integration never happen? think it'd really have been for the worse...or perhaps maybe...just maybe...for the better?
i dont really think it was an issue of if intergration would have been better or worse for the african american community. i think it was the fact that we werent entitled to the choice. back in the day, it was either you stay with your people (in the colored section, i.e. colored water fountains, colored bathroom, etc.) or u face the consequence. we fought becasue we were jipped out of opportunity. to be able to say 'i didnt choose to drink at that water fountain because i didnt want to as opposed to not being able to drink their because i couldnt'. it was all about principal and right.
did that even make sense? im so tired that i dont even think that sounded right so forgive me if it didnt u guys.
gurrrrrl nawwwww i feel ya 110%!!
that's how i feel about the "sitting in the back" situation too...
it's like, yeah those before us fought for us to be able to sit in the front...but that didn't necessarily mean that we're going to be sitting in the front for the rest of our lives...
it's just the principle of not being told what to do or how to do...
being able to have the same choices as Whites and whatnot...
some could even apply that to the concept of HBCUs...
some argue that the concept of HBCUs contradicts the past struggles for the success of integration among the races...
but it's all about having the right to attend a "racially-diverse" school if we want to...
and at the same time, our facilities have the same as those considered to be predominantly White...
AND at the same time even giving Whites and other minorities the opportunity to learn within our borders...
so yes, miss girl...i definitely feelz ya...
exactly. i cannot count the times that my momma has asked me y the hell 'youngsters' sit in the back of the bus when rosa's **** fought so hard so that she could stay in the front. im like momma it aint about sittin in the back or sittin in the front. its about having the choice. she fought for the choice and we all respect that but most people CHOOSE to sit in the back. now if someone comes up and tells them that they CANT sit in the back or the front or wherever, then thats where we have a problem. and its the same thing when people wear their hats backwards. my great-granny nearly tore my brothers head off when he had his fitted on sideways. she was like 'boy! u know how many people suffered so that you could wear that cap the RIGHT way! and u dont even 'preciate it!' she told me that white folks wanted slaves to suffer more while they were in the fields so when they had hats on(which i guarantee werent fitteds but might have been similar) they made them turn the bibs to the back so that the sun came down on them even hotter. and im guessing since her mother might have been there, i belive that is correct.
one excellent analogy one brotha used was....when you go into the auditorium of a predominantly white school....you're going to see all of the blacks come together in that auditorium and sit with each other, whether they know each other or not...
but if you go to one of a predominantly black school (HBCU or the like)...you go into the auditorium and all of the blacks are spread out
i was like dag...that's very true...
That makes my feelings even more unclear.
This is a damn good post. We need to meet up in person sometime or another.
hmmm im kinda with you Poetiq because i honestly dont know. but as for this
Quote:
like, what would things have been like if integration never happen? think it'd really have been for the worse...or perhaps maybe...just maybe...for the better?
i dont really think it was an issue of if intergration would have been better or worse for the african american community. i think it was the fact that we werent entitled to the choice. back in the day, it was either you stay with your people (in the colored section, i.e. colored water fountains, colored bathroom, etc.) or u face the consequence. we fought becasue we were jipped out of opportunity. to be able to say 'i didnt choose to drink at that water fountain because i didnt want to as opposed to not being able to drink their because i couldnt'. it was all about principal and right.
did that even make sense? im so tired that i dont even think that sounded right so forgive me if it didnt u guys.
gurrrrrl nawwwww i feel ya 110%!!
that's how i feel about the "sitting in the back" situation too...
it's like, yeah those before us fought for us to be able to sit in the front...but that didn't necessarily mean that we're going to be sitting in the front for the rest of our lives...
it's just the principle of not being told what to do or how to do...
being able to have the same choices as Whites and whatnot...
some could even apply that to the concept of HBCUs...
some argue that the concept of HBCUs contradicts the past struggles for the success of integration among the races...
but it's all about having the right to attend a "racially-diverse" school if we want to...
and at the same time, our facilities have the same as those considered to be predominantly White...
AND at the same time even giving Whites and other minorities the opportunity to learn within our borders...
so yes, miss girl...i definitely feelz ya...
exactly. i cannot count the times that my momma has asked me y the hell 'youngsters' sit in the back of the bus when rosa's **** fought so hard so that she could stay in the front. im like momma it aint about sittin in the back or sittin in the front. its about having the choice. she fought for the choice and we all respect that but most people CHOOSE to sit in the back. now if someone comes up and tells them that they CANT sit in the back or the front or wherever, then thats where we have a problem. and its the same thing when people wear their hats backwards. my great-granny nearly tore my brothers head off when he had his fitted on sideways. she was like 'boy! u know how many people suffered so that you could wear that cap the RIGHT way! and u dont even 'preciate it!' she told me that white folks wanted slaves to suffer more while they were in the fields so when they had hats on(which i guarantee werent fitteds but might have been similar) they made them turn the bibs to the back so that the sun came down on them even hotter. and im guessing since her mother might have been there, i belive that is correct.
hmmmm, ya learn something new everyday....
i definitely didn't know that....but it makes sense...
but yep...the right...that's the point....
at the same time, though...the only area i feel different about that....is the right to vote....i always feel like regardless of our feelings towards the government, politics, the legal system, the **** of the "powers that be," etc. etc. etc....if for no other reason, we should be going out to vote, in honor and respect of those who came before us...
but i guess many would argue the same about voting....we just wanted the right...didn't necessarily mean we'd actually exercise it once we got it - just to have it....was the point...
but i don't know...voting just seems different....whether you sit in the front or back of a bus or classroom is on you specifically...but voting - that deals with a much broader issue....plus...my favorite reason...it gives you the right to complain, disprove, approve, or voice whatever you'd like
You all are actually speaking of two historical events in our history as an African American community, the civil rights movement, and affirmative action. One was for the opportunity to make choices such as drinking at the same water fountain as a white person, the later, to have legal rights to what was “white” at the time. As a result, we lost our since of community. With affirmative action, we lost our businesses, our education, our schools, and our self-respect as a community.
We were better off financially, as a whole BEFORE affirmative action and integration of the school systems nationwide.
We complain about the Asians, Hispanics, and Jews, the ethnic nationalities of my father and grandparents. We need to take a closer look at WHY each of the aforementioned minorities (minority via race or religious affiliation) are succeeding; they succeed because they did not loose their sense of community and cultural identity—they stuck together no matter what. Even the African immigrants are out performing African Americans in business, community unity, percentage of home ownership, and education. As a result, they are heard due to their ability to unite as ONE. ONE body, ONE voice. Fragmented is all I can say about our African American community as a whole. Until we can walk as ONE, we will continue to stumble and fall behind.
As I’ve said before on HBCU, “White is not always right.”
We’ve isolated the problem, but what is the solution?
i think that in some ways we would've been better off because of the sense of unity that black communities had because they were struggling together. integration led to the making of many of the country's most famous projects, believe it or not, as well as the loss of culture. but then i like the fact that there is someone who doesn't understand what blacks have been through because then i get to brag about my people's accomplishments and such. so i just don't know. it's hard to say without having lived the other side.
...but anywayz, that's beside the point...
@ one point....it was said by a few there that contrary to popular belief...Black people would've been better off in the long-run without integration of the races....
they said that we would probably be much further by now because we wouldn't have gotten lazy and "comfortable" over time with the "as is" conditions...
PLUS...there would be much more unity within the Black community...because we'd be forced to interact more with each other and get along to overcome similar racial boundaries of the '70s, '60s, & prior...
one excellent analogy one brotha used was....when you go into the auditorium of a predominantly white school....you're going to see all of the blacks come together in that auditorium and sit with each other, whether they know each other or not...
but if you go to one of a predominantly black school (HBCU or the like)...you go into the auditorium and all of the blacks are spread out
i was like dag...that's very true...
pretty much everyone in the room agreed with him...
but me & this one brotha were the only ones like....sort of torn...
because you would like to believe that all of that protesting, marching, fighting, etc. etc...was not out of vain...and ultimately, integration was the best solution...
but when you really stop to think about it....was it?
not by ANY means knocking the achievements of those who came before us & demanded justice....i think their contributions were HIGHLY necessary...
it's just something to consider....like, what would things have been like if integration never happen? think it'd really have been for the worse...or perhaps maybe...just maybe...for the better?
someone else in the room said there would have definitely been a second Civil War....but this time...not between the regions (North vs. South)...but between ethnicities...or specifically...Blacks vs. Whites 
i've considered that before...but anyway...so what do u all think?
