Opposing views of the VI Emancipation Flag

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Ivan Butcher II Business Proprietor at The Butcher Shop of the Virgin Islands My response to Denial: The first thing your tone was and is condescending.  Instead of asking, Why? You preceded to tell me how I should feel and  what I should do,  like there is no other perspective but yours. Here is where I side with the Natives, who are striving for  their sovereignty, when someone from the outside feels they can dictate what should be.  The fact that you have chosen to live here amongst the descents of unjustly enslaved people, than reaching an understanding must be everyones objective for Harmony. You may not be a racist, but I am sure you know of those amongst us who are and who would like nothing better than to have our presences removed, except for those needed to do their bidding.  I haven't taken this personally and I am taking the time to give my reasoning for the Shackles. To Apprehension, I was more compassionate to: I hear your concern, but like in any relationship, until there is open communication to everyones' feelings and position, there is no chance for closure. I Butcher II Saturday, June 5th 2010 at 9:47PM

Ivan Butcher II Business Proprietor at The Butcher Shop of the Virgin Islands Denial's response: Ivan! I am sorry if I sounded condescending, I do have a terrible knack for doing that, but I speak from the heart and it was not meant to deny slavery or tell you how to feel about it. When I was swimming this morning I was thinking about your response which I had read before I left. I wondered if there was a flag anywhere in the world that had a heart on it. I looked when I came home and couldn't find one, but I did find a flag from the Cape Verde Islands that for me personally represents a forward looking outlook. I believe in uniting people and in looking forward, which you may view as denial but it isn't. I fight hard for it daily. Like the other person said no one is ever going to forget slavery. You said that suffering and strife should be edified and remembered. Suffering and strife has a place in everyone's history but to unite is a different ballgame. How do you go about it? That is a problem I fight daily. How to unite and not continue to divide? Suffering and strife has had top billing throughout man kinds history. It is always front and center, we dwell on it, we luxuriate in it, we publicize suffering and strife daily in our news media. We dwell on it so much it creates an unreasonable amount of fear that is used to manipulate. Looking forward in unity means peace to me. I didn't see the edification of peace and unity in the flags design I didn't see Everyone's Freedom? I didn't see the pride in accomplishment? And I didn't see the acknowledgment that it took courage and strength to throw the shackles off. To me the shackles represented disharmony and violence not the fight to get them off. "Every part of what is culture and tradition here is around emancipation and adaptation." I don't see the adaptation? Where is the glory in emancipation? What is the symbol for a free people? I would hope not shackles. Where is the future? The people of these islands are so gutsy and strong. They dared to fight back. They are stubborn and unwilling to let the shackles of the past keep them down. I understand your reasoning for having them on the flag...I just don't agree. I've had this discussion many times with my black friends here and have explained that I don't feel guilty about being white. I understand I'm priviledged because of the color of my skin but it doesn't make me want to fight any less hard to unite and not divide. One very very dear black friend told me not to feel guilty about being white but to point out to every white person instances of racism whenever I encounter it, even if it makes everyone in the room uncomfortable. I have been doing that for 25 years and have made many very uncomfortable. I've taught other white people how to do it too. If, as you said, you want to reach an objective understanding for the need for everyone's Harmony I hope you understand that my love for these islands and its people is on the way we continue to move forward, and the way we try to unite. Peace Saturday, June 5th 2010 at 9:52PM

Ivan Butcher II Business Proprietor at The Butcher Shop of the Virgin Islands My response to Denial: You still are trying to force your point of view with examples. It is obvious you have a good grasp of what a flag should and could look like, and it sounds as if you feel you can do a better job. Since I have open the door, it is wide open for you to do just that. My experience has been that most white people consciously or unconsciously have this superiority complex that makes them feel that they know Best. This is where the conflict lies. You can disputes this too, but history and facts supports my experiences and that of most people of color. So the change has to begin with You (your people) especially the ones you disagree with their racist attitude, just look at the Tea Party Movement. (Here I referenced the Tim Wise article) If you have spoken up against racist attitudes in public, then you are no long privy to what goes on behind close doors. I Butcher II Saturday, June 5th 2010 at 10:00PM

Ivan Butcher II Business Proprietor at The Butcher Shop of the Virgin Islands Denial's response: Ivan Your flag has been uppermost in my mind for days. I was talking with a friend about it just this morning and she said something that really jelled for me and also has so much to do with Wise's piece. She said the process of getting out of the shackles was still on-going. So I asked why one would want to enshrine it? And she replied like you, to keep its memory alive. So then I was thinking of "success" in terms of breaking them and the use of fire all over the island came to mind. My husband is Jewish and his people have been shackled and persecuted for thousands of years. I've had many discussions with him and our children about persecution and how to throw it off ones shoulders, to not make it a part of you forever so that it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy. Its a very difficult task but it has to start somewhere Reconciliation is a journey toward a place where truth, mercy, justice and peace meet. My path has been reconciliation. The goal is to heal and to reconcile people with each other. But for you and my friend I'm moving too fast and I apologize for that. I have to slow down and go at your pace. Peace Saturday, June 5th 2010 at 10:03PM

Ivan Butcher II Business Proprietor at The Butcher Shop of the Virgin Islands My response to Denial Their you go again, Yes, I did ask for feedback, but you proceeded to tell me what I should have done and ( But for you and my friend I'm moving too fast and I apologize for that. I have to slow down and go at your pace.) My pace implying again that you have the answer and you have to wait for everyone else to catch up. Welfare, I know it all too well. I grew up in a single parent home with two brothers and a sister. But, I was fortunate that my mother saw to it that I / we had a go education. I grew up in a housing projects in Brooklyn, and I went to Catholic school literally on the other side of the park. I was always that only black kid in the class. I often wonder looking back, how much of an impact I had on the Nuns' interpretation of America's history. The first time I was in a Black school setting was when I came here to teach in 1969, a year after Martin Luther King was killed. I understand your position and I see it the same way I view Christians, Muslims, and Jewish alike, that until there is One Love, there can not be any Hope for Change. To me Religion is and has been the biggest benefactor of Strife and Slavery. To me, Religion has been the Blight on the World. When Religious Doctrine does not respect others, because they do not worship God the Creator in their same manner, is the greatest sin on Humanity. Religion preaches have Faith, to me, Faith is Wishful Thinking. I Hope and Pray for guidance from the Almighty in all that I say and do. My position is not racist but more chauvinistic for the survival of my people. I Butcher II Saturday, June 5th 2010 at 10:07PM

Ivan Butcher II Business Proprietor at The Butcher Shop of the Virgin Islands Denial's response: Hi Ivan, I decided to go with my gut in reading what you sent so I wrote in a different color on your piece as I read it. I have put my gut feelings down. On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Ivan Butcher II wrote: (You still are trying to force your point of view with examples.) You are right, I am putting out my point of view because you asked for our opinions. Had you not asked we wouldn't be doing this. (It is obvious you have a good grasp of what a flag should and could look like, and it sounds as if you feel you can do a better job.) I think I'd do a lousy job...you are the artist with all the imagination. I just have a view of what I don't want it to look like and that is my personal viewpoint which you solicited. (Since I have open the door, it is wide open for you to do just that. My experience has been that most white people consciously or unconsciously have this superiority complex that makes them feel that they know Best.) I told you, I have a monster tendency to speak my mind and it has nothing to do with being white. It has everything to do with being educated and coming from a welfare background. I'm wondering if you were ever on welfare? This is where the conflict lies. You can disputes this too, but history and facts supports my experiences and that of most people of color. So the change has to begin with You (your people) especially the ones you disagree with their racist attitude, just look at the Tea Party Movement.) I hate the Tea Party movement. Ivan...I sent this piece out when he first put it on line. I sent it to conservatives and liberals alike...black and white. I used it to promote greater understanding of what white people do that they can get away with as opposed to a person of color trying to do the same thing. I've already read it at least 5 times. It is beautiful and absolutely right on. Saturday, June 5th 2010 at 10:22PM

Ivan Butcher II Business Proprietor at The Butcher Shop of the Virgin Islands Denial's response: Ivan, Like I said, I don't have the final answer no one does. I also refer to myself as a human being and say that on my blog. I don't like organized religion but do believe we are part of AllOne. You and I are connected along with everyone else and every other thing. We were meant to have this conversation. Reconciliation goes in stages. When I said I had to slow down and go at your pace it was not meant to imply any sort of catching up with me. It was meant to say that I had missed something and I needed to slow down to catch it. You are relating to my white skin. You have a whole set of ideas about me solely because I'm white. If I say anything that fits what you believe about me it just reinforces my "whiteness" You are not relating to me as a person. You are relating to me as a white person. What if I was black and said I didn't want the shackles that I had taken them out of my heart would you relate to me differently? I've lived with reverse discrimination for 30 years. Its OK. For the most part I ignore it but there have been times when it makes me cry when I feel I've been treated unjustly. I think it has been great for my kids to grow up here and experience that. Thank you for continuing the discourse and remember I do tell people what to do, I do speak my mind but it has nothing to do with being white...I do it to everyone. Saturday, June 5th 2010 at 10:26PM

Ivan Butcher II Business Proprietor at The Butcher Shop of the Virgin Islands My response to Denial: Your skin is not what I am addressing, it's the superior white culture that you say that you abhor. My stepmother a loving woman is Italian and my brother and sister are you complexion. In fact my father was clear skinned. I get my darkest from my mother's father's people. Even my dark skin was a challenge amongst my on people at times. If you were Black I would tell you exactly the same thing, that you are in Denial. I have this same conversation with "the so called elite black scholars", that feel threaten by this Truth. Malchom X said, and I agree, "No one man / woman can rise above the condition of their people" I have been here 41 years and I have received the same discrimination by black people here, because I am considered a Yankee. To me what America has stood for, I feel hurt and highly insulted by this label, it is like if a racist calling me a *****. I too love it here and glad to have been Blessed to live and raise my children here. We have a lot in common. This constitutional issue about who is a Virgin Islander is like a relationship gone bad. Reconciliation for me is not to focus on the selfish ignorant, but the Youth who haven't been scared by prejudice. You and I dialoguing is exactly what is need Today, here and in America. My point, without the Shackles there lies within the hidden Discord. I Butcher II Saturday, June 5th 2010 at 10:30PM

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